Author: lifecoach4God
I am the Lead Pastor of Marin Bible Church (Bay Area), born and raised in Huntington Beach, Ca., and currently living in Novato, California. I am married to my best friend of 30 years - Dana - and have five adult children; and seven grand children. I have been a Teaching Pastor for over thirty years. I was privileged to study at Multnomah University (B.S. - 1988); Talbot School of Theology (M.Div. - 1991); Westminster Theological Seminary & Northwest Graduate School (D. Min. - 2003). I founded Vertical Living Ministries in 2008 with the goal of encouraging Christian Disciples and Leaders to be more intentionally Christ-Centered in how they live by bringing glory to God in nine key areas of life: (1) Intimacy with God, (2) marriage, (3) family, (4) friendship, (5) vocationally/ministry , (6) emotional and physical health, (7) stewardship of resources, (8) discipleship, and (9) mentoring.
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Hi,
Thanks for this article. Without even carefuly reading the Bible, I thought that with the basic teaching of Hod’s sovereignty, I always grew up thinking exactly what was written in the article. However, as I continue studying the Bible, I find it hard to explain to myself the many times David tried to “negotiate” with God convincing Him to not punish His people when they disobeyed. Or King Hezekiah praying hard that God may give him 15 more years to live when He has previously received a message from God that he will die (if Hezekiah accepted this prophecy, would he still have received the additional 15 yrs and not die as prophesied? Or was he really meant/ordained to pray bitterly about it and there is zero chance that he would have accepted the prophecy so that God’s plan will come to pass by means of his prayer)?
And more importantly, before crucifixion, why did Jesus pray to his Father if it is possible to let the cup pass from Him? Indeed, He then followed this by saying, “not as I will but as You will.” However, Jesus, who knew the very heart and nature of God, if He knew that this cup has been permanently ordained to happen, why did he somehow try or take the chance to ask if it can pass from him?
Very eager to receive a response. Thank you. Blessings!
Hi,
Sorry for flooding your page. I made a couple mistakes in my previous comment so here’s the edited one so we can scrap the first two. Thanks!
Thanks for this article. I thought that with the basic teaching of God’s sovereignty, I always grew up thinking exactly what was written here. However, as I continue studying the Bible, I find it hard to explain to myself the many times Moses tried to “negotiate” with God convincing Him to not punish His people when they disobeyed. Or King Hezekiah praying hard that God may give him more years to live when He has previously received a message from God that he will die (if Hezekiah accepted this prophecy, would he still have received the additional 15 yrs and not die as prophesied? Or was he really meant/ordained to pray bitterly about it and there is zero chance that he would have accepted the prophecy so that God’s plan will come to pass by means of his prayer)?
And more importantly, before crucifixion, why did Jesus pray to his Father if it is possible to let the cup pass from Him? Indeed, He then followed this by saying, “not as I will but as You will.” However, Jesus, who knew the very heart and nature of God, if He knew that this cup has been permanently ordained to happen, why did he somehow try or take the chance to ask if it can pass from him?
Very eager to receive a response. Thank you. Blessings!
Good observations and questions. In all three situations you bring up with Moses, Hezekiah and Jesus. They are similar. They all reflect human helplessness and weakness in their situations (including Jesus – because he suffered in his humanity). We never know how God is going to bring about His sovereign purposes and yet we are told to “seek, ask, and knock”. In The NT we have parables aught by Jesus about persistant prayer. Ultimately it’s a mystery how God uses our prayers and how He answers them according to His sovereign will. We can’t change His minds, but I think what often happens in prayer is that our requests conform to His will – sometimes even subconsciously. Prayer and people’s salvation are very similar. God has chosen in eternity past who will be saved – but in the process of our prayers for the lost – oftentimes it is our actions and the means of other believers that God uses to bring those individuals to Himself. Human means and actions are all significant. Even as Joseph said to his brothers “What you meant for evil, God meant for good” (Genesis 50). That’s why the apostle Paul said in Romans 8:28 that all things work together for good for those who love God, who have been called according to His purpose.” The bad and the good actions of all mankind are ultimately used in the behind the scenes tapestry of life for our good and God’s glory. All we know is that we are commanded to pray and to evangelize – but the means and results are ultimately determined by the sovereign plan of God in eternity past. Fro, the anthropomorphic/human side we see Moses’, Hezekiah’s, and Jesus’ struggling with God – but from the Divine soveriegn side we see God working out the results for their good and His glory – this is always the case for all of His children.
Hi Lifecoach,
Appreciate your answer.
Sometimes, it brings me to frustration knowing that no amount of tears and prayers will ever convince God to save some loved ones if they weren’t chosen by God to begin with.. But thanks to this new insight. It gives me hope. That the fact that I am stirred and compelled to persistently pray for them might just mean they were indeed chosen by God to be saved and that my prayers are a part of God’s means for their salvation. Of course, I can never be sure until it is revealed, but it still gives me hope! And my task is to continue praying for them and witnessing to them.. And just see how God’s plan unfolds.
Thanks!
There was an unconverted Jewish man in a church where I pastored whose wife prayed for him for 50 years before He believed that Jesus was the Messiah and repented and put his trust in Him to save him. From a human perspective it came through prayer, the witness and testimony of friends, and a humble and gosdly wife’s patience and perseverance. Her husband came to Chirst over a devade ago in his late 70’s. He is now 88 and is one of the strongest and hungriest Christians I know. In God’s timing and providence He saved this man through the means of prayer, and His people, but in eternity past this man was chosen by God in His perfect time. We don’t know who the elect are – but through the means of the proclamation of the Word, love, and prayers that’s how all people ultimately come to Christ. Charles Spurgeon put it this way, A man was walking through a doorway, and above the entrance was a sign that read: “Whoseover will may come.” As he walked through the doorway and looked back, another sign above the entrance on that side read: “I chose you before the foundations of the earth were created.” I hope this encourages you! David
WONDERFUL REVELATION. I HAD THE SAME QUESTION IF OUR PRAYERS CAN ACTUALLY CHANGE THE MIND OF GOD. THANK YOU
When we pray, is it right to be focused on the issue that we are praying for?
Hello Beatrice, It seems that in both Matthew 6 (known as “The Lord’s Prayer” – the model that Jesus laid out for the disciples to pray) and in John 17 (the Real Lord’s Prayer – what Jesus prayed for) – we have a primary focus on the Lord’s Will and glory to be carried out. I think we need to focus on God’s will being done and the acceptance of whatever His purposes and plans are for our requests…In prayer (a means of sanctification) we are conformed and transformed to the image of Christ – become more in tune with His will for us and others to be done on earth.